Full Interview – Three secrets to creativity you can learn from a writer on “Family Guy”
Andrew Goldberg and I met about 12 years ago when we were in grad school together. He was always funny but for the past five years that’s been his full time job — as a staff writer on “Family Guy.” I talked to Andrew about creativity, comedy and why fatherhood is the best cure for procrastination.
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Eric:
You’ve been at “Family Guy” five years. Is there a process for you guys in terms of creativity, writing, turning out such great comedy consistently?
Andrew:
I’m not one of those writers who likes to sit alone in a dark room by himself. It’s nice sometimes, obviously. But, I like that I go to work everyday and we work in groups. We have a really big staff. I mean, we have a lot of part time people but if everybody were to show up on the same day there would be like 25 of us there. Usually there’s like between 15 and 20. And the way we usually go through a script is one main room will go through the script itself rewriting it. And then we’ll get to certain places where it’s kind of an isolated stand alone gag. Whether it’s a flashback or a scene and they’ll send out four or five of us for a couple hours to go write five different versions of what it might be. We call them “alts”. And then we come back, and we pitch them and they pick the funniest one. And it goes in. Seeing in terms of “Family Guy” works versus how most sitcoms work, we usually have three or four rooms going at once, which is unusual. Most sitcoms just have one or two rooms going at once. But, our show is so dense with jokes, it’s a joke driven show. We find that it works better if we have a lot of rooms working at once.
Eric:
It sounds like you guys are big on producing a lot of options, iterating. How do you feel that helps the process?
Andrew:
I’m a big fan of writing alts. If I come to a joke spot, even if I’m working on my own stuff, I’ll often write three or four or five different alts, and then I’ll show it to friends, show it to my wife, show it to my manager, show it to a director or somebody on the project, and ask them which they think is funniest. Usually the first joke you think of isn’t the funniest. You can, you know, one thing that I’ve learned from TV and working in a big group is, whatever joke is there, you can always beat it. There’s always a funnier joke somewhere out there. So I’m a big fan of writing different versions to, kind of find the funniest and the best version.
Eric:
Are there any tricks that work for you in terms of getting yourself to generate something different? To get your head unstuck from the one vision, and to look at it from different angles?
Andrew:
For me, the best way to do that is to work in a group. It’s like automatically infusing new creativity. Somebody might pitch a joke that doesn’t really work, but the area leads you to something that works. Or, you pitch something that’s halfway there, and somebody adds to it that, you know, makes it really work. That’s one way. You know? I think for me, I watch a lot of TV, I watch a lot of movies. Started listening to books on tape in the car. Partly to prevent myself from going insane. And partly to read when I have a full time job. Plus, I have my own projects. Plus I have two small children, so, you know, there isn’t, you know, a lot of time, like leisure time. But I do try to pack it with kind of ingesting, you know, pop culture, and stuff like that. I thought you were going to ask how do I get myself to sit down and write. And my answer was going to be have children, because then as soon as you have a moment, you take advantage of it. It’s a really good cure for procrastination and writer’s block.
Eric:
Give birth.
Andrew:
Yeah. That’s my advice. To any writers who are having trouble focusing.
Eric:
Does it matter, legitimate, illegitimate kids? Does that make a difference, or…?
Andrew:
Well, no, as long as you’re sticking around and caring for it, then it works. If you’re just impregnating somebody, then splitting, it doesn’t help much.
Eric:
Can you talk about the dynamics in the room? You said that like a great way to create those alts, create those options, was to have other people all working together. What about those dynamics? How do you get the best out of other people? How do they decide who has the best idea? Can you just talk a little bit about dynamics?
Andrew:
The way it works on our show is when the show runner sends out the room, he’ll usually say, “So and so take so and so and so and so and so and so.” And whoever is taking, you know, the other people, that’s the person who’s in charge. So, any of those rooms, it works best when there’s one person in charge, who makes, you know, the decisions of what goes in the script or what doesn’t. And, the different people in charge create different room dynamics. Personally, when I’m in charge we’ll pitch a bunch of ideas, and I’ll say we should write up the ones that I like, but I’ll always be like, “Is there anything else that anybody else loves and thinks should have a shot?“ And, you know, people are usually comfortable enough to pipe up if they do. And then there are some people who when they’re running a room, aren’t that interested in other people’s opinions or maybe they’re just more confident in their own opinions than I am. But everybody has their own dynamic. It’s like in any job. Anybody you’re working with, any group of people you’re working with, based on their unique personalities create their own dynamic. But when it’s working really well, it’s one of those things where the total is more than the sum of the parts, where people are feeding off each other. And helping each other figure out how to do the best versions as certain bits.
Eric:
Once you guys come out of the rooms, and get back into the original pool. Where does it go from there?
Andrew:
One of the nice things about working in animation versus live action is in live action mostly it’s like, in a week you’re producing a show. For us, it kind of bounces around from day to day, what we’re working on, because we’re working on different episodes in different stages of production. But, you know, it’s best when we go in and there’s a goal for the day, you know, we’re going to finish the rewrite on act one of this script or we’re going to rewrite this rough color version that we watched this morning. So, in terms of like, what the goal is, it kind of changes from day to day.
Eric:
What part of the process is most interesting to you and why?
Andrew:
Pitching on jokes. In some ways it’s the hardest part but, you know, you can argue back and forth about a story. I spend a lot of time now in editing and story boards and animation. And, you know, writing dialogue or action or whatever is fun, but to me pitching on a joke, stopping on a joke area, and people pitching and pitching with each other and competing against each other to be the one who gets the joke in is the funnest part for me.
Eric:
Have you noticed any patterns when stuff really works? It generally has this quality, or when everybody loves it, there’s this feeling or this consistency about it? Are there any trends in kind of when things really are creative or quick or funny?
Andrew:
For most shows, I think it’s when the jokes are really character based. And they feel very unique to that character and the character’s relationship. For our show, I think it’s a little different, just because we have so many jokes that aren’t character based. And the way our characters are created, they often kind of break character. Somebody like Peter Griffin, can do almost anything at any given moment. So, it’s not as character and relationship driven as other sitcoms. It’s more joke driven, yeah.
Eric:
So in terms of creativity, you mention working in teams and going to break out groups, what are things down the line, if you were to do another show, if you were to be writing on other projects, what are some things, where you’d say “These are real takeaways, these are real methods, tips, or tricks that I would bring with me because these are some of the best things that I learned there“?
Andrew:
Mm-hmm. One of them would be doing alts, which I mentioned before, and taking the funniest one. Another thing that we do on “Family Guy” that, I don’t know of another show that does it, you come up with the idea for the show, you beat out the story, we call “breaking a story.” Whether on a white board, or on index cards or whatever. And then the writer of that episode goes off and writes the outline. And on most shows, they get notes and they go off and write their first draft. On our show, they get notes, and then we spend a day or two in a group of, you know, five or six people doing what we call gag tests. Which is going through the outline, scene by scene, and just pitching jokes and ideas for each scene, for bits in each scene. And the reason we do it on our show is because it’s the show is so dense with jokes. It’s useful to go out with a document, with ideas, and areas for jokes to come back to as you’re writing it. You know, on another show, on a live action show, I’m not sure I would spend two days on it. But, to spend a day or an afternoon with five funny people before you go off to script can, you know, really elevate the product that comes back, I think.
Eric:
Obviously not everything can make it. Some things have to get cut. People are going to disagree on what’s funny. That’s a very qualitative personal judgment. How do you guys arrive at something that is objectively good?
Andrew:
It’s very difficult. It’s probably one of the hardest parts of the job. One thing you brought up is how do you deal with it, when you think something’s funny and everybody else doesn’t. One of the nice things about growing as a writer in TV and breaking in, in TV as you learn you’re forced to not be too precious with your material.
Eric:
What about dealing with different or difficult personalities?
Andrew:
And, in terms of dealing with different personalities, I think it’s like any business. It’s tough to deal with different personalities. And I think our staff kind of has a reputation and probably earned for being pretty tough. I mean, we’re pretty vicious with each other in a joking way, sometimes. But, you know, there aren’t a lot of polite laughs. If something gets pitched and we don’t think it’s funny, we don’t laugh. Because on our show the laugh is kind of king. If it gets a laugh, it goes in. If it’s something that can get by broadcast standards and practices. But, it’s tough for me to speak on this because I’ve only worked on one show and I know that each show has it’s own personality and you just, I think when you go in there, you gotta figure out quickly and figure out what your place is in there.
Eric:
Got you. So when you are alone in that dark room working on that outline for the show or working on another project and you do have to work by yourself, how does that change your process? How does that change how you work when you’re not in a room with a group?
Andrew:
It’s interesting, because like I said, I like to work in a room with a group, because it’s fun and it’s boisterous, but like, when I’m by myself, I actually prefer like no distractions and silence. Like, I’m not somebody who can like listen to music in the background and write. Or write in like a crowded coffee shop. For me, the biggest thing when I’m writing myself is just to set a goal, to set a goal for morning or for a day, and just try to get to there. If I set a goal to finish an act of a script by the end of the day, and I get there, then I feel good. If I don’t get there, I feel nervous and jittery.
Eric:
In terms of coming up with original ideas, coming up with stuff that’s funny, what do you think most people do wrong?
Andrew:
I think it’s a volume thing. I think some people make the mistake of thinking that the first thing that they think of is perfect, and they fall in love with it. You might write five different versions of it, and ultimately come back to the first version and decide that’s the best. But I think writing different versions kind of, of the same thing, frees you up to be more creative and to, you know, look for different paths, you know, in that, different ways to go with that same moment in whatever you’re writing.
Eric:
Do you think there’s any kind of danger in terms of “groupthink”? Is there any times where a group makes it worse? Where a group wears it down?
Andrew:
Yeah. If everybody’s not working in the same direction. Absolutely. I mean, it can, one person can totally grind things to a halt. You know, one person is not on board. Or you know, one person who’s not fitting in and working out can really bring a room down. And then, the other dangers of “groupthink” is, you know, when it’s one o’clock in the morning and you guys, you all think something’s hilarious, and then you’re reading it at a table read the next morning and nobody is laughing, and you realize we were just stirring each up. Like, this is only funny to us, and it was only because it was so late. Yeah.
Eric:
Can you talk about “funny”? What’s it mean? I’ve known you for, what, 12, 13 years, you know? You were always a funny guy. How has your kind of concept of funny, what is funny, changed, in five years of Family Guy?
Andrew:
Wow, that’s an interesting question. One kind of sad thing about being a comedy professional is, there’s like a little element of arrogance, where you see something and it might make you laugh, but you’re like, “Oh, I shouldn’t laugh at that.” Or I shouldn’t tell people I think it’s funny. For instance, I went with my wife to the last Adam Sandler movie, “That’s My Boy.” And I thought it was funny. I laughed the whole time. And if I said that in my room at work, they’d be like, “How could you laugh at an Adam Sandler movie?!?!?” I think now, I challenge myself to be funnier than I did five years ago. I challenge myself to find the new joke or the fresher joke more than I would have when I was a younger writer.
Eric:
That’s interesting. So, what you find funny hasn’t changed dramatically but it’s just a matter of working harder, working longer, generating more ideas to get another 10 %, another 15 %.
Andrew:
Yeah. Yeah. I think so.
Eric:
Were there any books that helped you, were there any movies that helped you, anything that you were like, “Wow, this really inspired me, this really helped me”?
Andrew:
The best thing, for me, about graduate school is I figured out what I wanted to do. I went there, I was in the producers program. It seemed like a palatable thing in that both my parents worked for IBM for 30 years, so that was my sense of what a job was. And producer seemed to be the closest thing to, like, a real job in entertainment beyond shows that I knew at the time. And, while I was in the program, I took a sitcom writing class with Fred Rubin. And, you know, a couple weeks into it, I was like okay this is what I want to do. This is, you know, I want to be a sitcom writer. And that was great, especially having that level of specificity. Because when you know exactly what you want to do, it makes it easier to do. Because you’re focused on it. And it makes it easier for people to help you.
PART 2
Eric:
I think movies and TV have really been changing. If anything, people might say in the last 15 years, it kind of got turned on it’s head. Movies have gotten worse. And television has gotten much, much better. We used to go to movies for quality and TV to zone out. And now it seems like it’s the reverse. Any thoughts on how entertainment’s been changing?
Andrew:
To say that TV has gotten better, I guess parts of it have and parts of it have gotten way worse. The thing with TV is there’s just so much more of it now. And with the number of shows that are being produced now, some of them better be good, some of them better be high quality. There’s just so many channels catering to so many like small pockets of audience that, yeah, places like AMC or HBO, have really focused on, “We’re aiming for this cerebral quality version.” Whereas some place like E, they’re aiming for a totally different audience. So, yeah, there’s more quality stuff than there was 15 years ago, but there’s also more low quality stuff.
Eric:
So, you think like, the percentage hasn’t changed but the aggregate number has.
Andrew:
I think so. And I think that maybe 15 years ago or 20 years ago, TV just didn’t get the credit it deserved. Shows like The West Wing, Cheers, or Seinfeld, those are some of the greatest things we’ve produced in the last 50 years as an entire industry, not just TV.
Eric:
What do you think bad comedies do wrong and good comedies do right?
Andrew:
For me, the main things that turn me off to a comedy is, one, if the jokes just feel tired. They feel so old and very familiar. And, two, if the characters behave in a way that makes no sense. Like, if they, you know, if the characters do stuff just because if it works with the story they’re trying to do. As opposed to something that makes sense for a human being to do, or for that character to do.
Eric:
Do you think it’s more of a liability these days to try and do the mainstream, right-down-the-middle type of comedy that you and I grew up with? The comedy that tries to please everybody?
Andrew:
Creatively, yes, it’s liability. Especially with comedy, because to me, down the middle, trying to please everybody for comedy, it doesn’t strike me as funny. Safe is not the way to go for comedy, to me. So, creatively, I think it’s a liability. But, in terms of getting stuff made, it’s not as much of a liability because I think that the major broadcast networks and the major movie studios, the way they still develop entertainment is by taking stuff that’s unique and different and funneling it toward the middle.
Eric:
What do you recommend for people who want to break into TV writing?
Andrew:
For sitcom writers breaking in, it’s write as many scripts as you can, a spec episode of Modern Family or Family Guy, or whatever show people are writing now. And don’t just write a few. Write a bunch, because the more you write, the better you’ll get and you’ll probably want to throw out the first few that you wrote. The second thing is seriously consider getting a day job in the industry. And ideally trying to get a day job working for who you want to be. When I first came out of school I worked at 20th Century Fox for two years. And, it was a great, in the comedy department, it was a great experience, because I saw 60, 80, a hundred writers come through in those two years selling shows, writing pilots. A few of them made it big on TV and I got to see what they all did right and what they did wrong. And then after that, my bosses knew I wanted to be a writer, so they started introducing me to different writers and one of the people they introduced me to was Seth (MacFarlane). And fortunately it was around the time Family Guy was coming back, and he needed an assistant so he hired me to do that. And it’s great when you can work for somebody that you think you want to be.
Watching Seth work for those three years, I learned an enormous amount. And even before I worked at Fox, when I was in grad school, I worked part time for a writing team, that were married, and that was a great experience because I got very close with them, and I saw not just how they worked but how they lived. And I was able to start to envision not just what my career would be but what my life would be like if I were a working writer; in terms of having kids, having a wife, and budgeting my time.
Eric:
More specifically, what else have you learned from Seth?
Andrew:
God, some of the stuff that I was just saying about taking risks and going for the less obvious joke is certainly something that I learned from him. And that also, that idea of don’t just trust that first thing you think of, keep pitching until you find the funniest thing for the spot that you’re in. And then, you know, also like, visually, he’s brilliant. You know, as soon as you pitch something to him, he sees it and like, you know, as soon as he hears the one liner for an episode, he starts seeing the whole episode. And that’s, you know, that’s what I try to do, and working with the artist at our show a lot has not just helped me as a Family Guy writer, but as a writer for everything I do. Because, from the editors I learned how to get rid of what we don’t need and how to pace out certain scenes. And from the artists you learn how to execute visual gags in the funniest and cleanest way.
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